Max Shachtman
Articles from The New International
Is Russia a Socialist Community? The Verbatim Text of a Debate
Source: The New International: A Monthly Organ of Revolutionary Marxism Vol 16,
No. 3, May-June, 1950. Pg. 145-176.
Editor: Max Shachtman
We print below the verbatim text of a debate, held in New York City's Webster
Hall on March 30, between Earl Browder, former general secretary of the
Communist Party of the United States, and Max Shachtman, national chairman of
the Independent Socialist League. In many ways the most unusual political
meeting in this country in decades, the debate aroused an exceptional amount of
interest which was only barely indicated by the more than 1200 people who came
to Webster Hall. For a full report of the circumstances attending the debate and
its aftermath, its coverage in the press and so forth, we refer our readers to
Labor Action for April 10 and 17.
The debate was arranged by the Eugene V. Debs Society of Brooklyn College. (We
are informed that the debate is still very much a living issue on the Brooklyn
College campus and on other New York City campuses.) Victor Kaplan, president of
the Debs Society, opened the meeting with a brief address, and introduced the
chairman for the debate, Professor C. Wright Mills of Columbia University's
Department of Sociology.
A tape record was made of the debate. The text we publish herewith is a
word-by-word transcription of the debate as recorded, unaltered by either of the
speakers. Unfortunately, the final section of the tape, containing Browder's
three-minute sur-rebuttal (he had five minutes at his disposal but did not use
all of his time) was defective, and only the first word is audible. We sincerely
regret this omission.
Introduction by Chairman C. Wright Mills
Ladies and Gentlemen: I am happy to say that neither of the speakers that we are
going to hear tonight in any way represents the official line of U. S. ideology
toward the Soviet Union. This does not insure, but I think that it does make
possible, and perhaps even more likely, that what they have to say separately
and particularly when taken together may enlighten our understanding of what is
going on in the world, and particularly those portions of it that are now within
the Russian zone.
There is no need for me to introduce either of the Speakers. You know Mr. Earl
Browder, former General Secretary of the Communist Party in the United States
from 1930 to 1944, and Mr. Shachtman, Chairman of the Independent Socialist
League. The topic that they are going to debate is, "Is Russia a Socialist
Community?" And this debate win be organized in the following way, to which both
speakers have agreed: Mr. Browder will speak for approximately 45 minutes on the
affirmative. Mr. Shachtman will then speak for the same length of time for the
negative. There will then be a few announcements by Mr. Kaplan, the president of
the Debs Society, and then there will be rebuttals. Mr. Browder will speak then
for about 20 minutes; Mr. Shachtman will speak for 25 minutes, and finally the
debate will be ended by a statement by Mr. Browder not to exceed 5 minutes. That
is the timing, which was not in my hands but was agreed to by both of the
speakers, as I think is the usual manner of proceeding in these occasions. So
without any further ado I give you Mr. Earl Browder on the affirmative: Mr.
Browder.
Presentation by Earl Browder:
Ladies and gentlemen, friends: Is Russia a socialist community? This is the
question presented by our sponsors tonight, the Eugene V. Debs society of
Brooklyn College. I assume that you are not interested in the proper usage of
words so much as in estimating the significance of the new society in Russia for
the world and for America in particular. I will discuss history, therefore,
rather than philology. I speak for myself alone as a student of Marxism, and not
on behalf of any organization. I address myself to those who seek the truth as
the prime value in life. Now to our subject.
I am aware, of course, that some people deny the right of the Union of Socialist
Soviet Republics to use its own chosen name. They say it is not socialist
because it does not conform to their preconception as to what socialism must be
like. There are many varieties of socialism and there is little profit in
disputes as to their right to use the name. The USSR has not asked our
permission to use the name socialist. It has proclaimed itself a socialist
country for about 33 years, has organized the new type of economy under that
name, and has achieved certain successes, for which it has paid a very heavy
price. It sustained its right to existence as a socialist country by victory in
the greatest of all wars.
Words are useful to explain history, but they have no primary role in
determining history. On the contrary, it is history which determines the meaning
of words. The only type of socialism existing in the world of fact as distinct
from ideas is that of the USSR. You may like it or not, understand it or not --
but there it is. It is a fact, a very important one. It is the course of
prudence and wisdom to recognize facts and try to understand them. It is a
question of history as to whether the new system in Russia which calls itself
socialist is an entirely new variety of socialism or whether it realizes a
pre-existing body of ideas identified by that name. Specifically, this is the
question -- whether the Russians are correct in claiming their new system as a
realization of the body of ideas known as Marxism, or scientific socialism. This
is a question the answer to which is capable of proof by reference to objective
facts and not merely by citation of theories.
Marxism is an interpretation of history which explains the progress of society
as a product of the expansion of the forces of production of the material means
of life, that is, the development of economy. The stage of the development of
the productive forces determines the political and ideological superstructure of
society which are crystallized into a system of social organization. The social
system grows rigid but the productive forces continue to expand, and conflict
ensues between the forces of production and the social conditions of production.
This conflict finally reaches a stage in which a fundamental change of the
social conditions becomes necessary to bring them in harmony with the continued
growth of production. This is the stage which produces revolution, a relatively
brief period in history in which outmoded social forms are discarded and new
ones are created which free the shackled productive forces for a new leap
forward in their expansion.
Marxism traces this process in past history from the primitive tribal commune
through slavery, feudalism, early capitalism in the form of simple artisan
manufacturing, the rise of modern capitalism in power-driven machinery, and the
final stage of capitalism marked by huge trusts and monopolies and the trend
toward state capitalism, in which state power becomes the collective capitalist.
Marxism conceives of the new system of socialism as the necessary outcome of all
previous history made possible and necessary only by that previous history.
Because capitalist society has expanded the productive forces so enormously, the
social conditions under which it arose lag behind and become fetters holding
back the further growth of productive forces.
Socialism is nothing more nor less than the social, political and ideological
system which breaks the fetters upon economic growth created under capitalism
and opens the way to a new period of economic and social expansion on a much
larger scale. So long as bourgeois society, that is, capitalism, reigned supreme
throughout the world and dominated the lands of free capitalist development, the
dispute between various schools of thought was conducted primarily on the level
of theory, that is, the struggle between ideas, as to which most correctly
foreshadowed the next stage of development in history which had still not
appeared in fact, in life.
But in 1917 the Russian Revolution introduced a new phase, that of testing
theories in their practical application in life. Socialism was introduced as a
living reality. It is now to be tested not only in theory, in the mind, in
thought, but also by reference to fact, to objective reality, to the real world.
The question as to whether Russia is a socialist community is thus reduced to
the question of fact, as to whether this new system has introduced a higher
stage of economic development into the world. Since the new system has existed
for one-third of a century, since it has overcome the challenges to its very
existence, it may now be judged first of ...
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